No Content = No Vote part 1 »
Posted By Radiofreeeuropa 8 months, 2 weeks ago in Science & TechnologyFirst of a three part series about the Propeller.com community and some suggestions regarding submissions with little or no content.
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Radiofreeeuropa
All progress comes from unreasonable people.
Greetings fellow travelers! Thanks for stopping in. I'm a musician, educator, and writer. I am the music editor ...
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Radiofreeeuropa8 months, 2 weeks ago
Do you agree with this proposition? Let's really have some debate about this. After all, you decide what appears on our front page. Do you want it to be a picture of a duck and 30 ads?
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tomboy5018 months, 2 weeks ago
I absolutely agree. The blatant spam that is allowed to propagate the home page here is shocking, especially since this site is groomed by editors and anchors. I can only surmise that they allow it to flourish for a reason (the spammers=traffic business decision). This has driven me away from participating on this site much these days.
There is such a great social news community here on Propeller. The spam and 'no content' posts degrade the site.
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SonOfTheMask8 months, 2 weeks ago
RFE, I would challenge your views on this subject. Either Propelle is an open forum to submit material that doesn't violate the Terms of Use...or it isn't. As long as the Propeller member is not a "sock puppet" account (no offense Sock Puppet) then they should be free to vote as they please. Panhandling for votes should be allowed. But, I also think there should be a way to "block" PM messages if you don't want to get such pleas.
At one time, when still Netscape, the algorithms put up only the most "popular" stories, regardless of channel/category. It was a good idea to change it to put up the top several most popular stories, but to also put up the top stories by category for several channels that (at that time) didn't get a lot of traffic. To me that is the best overall balance.
If people want to vote up "low content" stories where is the harm? As long as it's not collusive or sock puppet rings, I think it is fine.
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mesodude8 months, 2 weeks ago
"As long as the Propeller member is not a "sock puppet" account (no offense Sock Puppet) then they should be free to vote as they please."
--The thing is, if you review the TOU, there are certain terms which are a matter of interpretation. Consider some of the following excerpts regarding unacceptable behavior on Propeller:
"is unlawful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, obscene, pornographic, invasive of another's privacy, tortious, or contains explicit or graphic descriptions, or accounts of, sexual acts"
"interferes with the use of Propeller.com by others."
"You may not interfere with any other party's use and enjoyment of Propeller.com."
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Bkumm8 months, 2 weeks ago
I think you're missing the point to make a point.
Okay, point taken. You should be able to vote for anything you want whenever you want. If you want to vote for "20 Ways to See Jessica Simpson Naked" then go for it. That is obviously your prerogative.
On the other hand, many of us would like to see the front page of Propeller look like something other than the front page of Digg. We would like it to be taken somewhat seriously as a place where people can get together, share opinions and discuss calmly and fairly the stories of the day. Almost like a salon of Imperial France. And if we let spammers and spambots take over, we're not going to look like that. We're going to have garbage out there representing our Propeller image.
Also, don't you think a person should at least read the story they're voting on, before doing so? I do. And I haven't.
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mesodude8 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for this. I 100% agree. I stopped reading my messages a year ago because I was wading through scores of recommended stories daily. It's still not clear to me how articles making the front page are ranked but when the front page is peppered with "articles" along the lines of "101 Ways to Drive Your Man Wild in Bed (Try Them All Tonight, Ladies)" I can't help but wonder. If I thought this was an accurate representation of what was on the minds of the average Propeller user, I'd be okay with that. Saddened and thorougly embarrassed as an American but still cool with it. But many days, visiting Propeller is like listening to Ron Paul supporters bombard C-SPAN with phone calls every morning. It's the efforts of a vocal minority creating noise and being party poopers. Uh-oh...I'm sure that's gonna get me into a lotta trouble. ;-0
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BronxBomber8 months, 2 weeks ago
Excellent RFE! I had recently had to marginalize my buddy list because in time, I had learned to select just friends who have been in the old Netscape that had submitted cogent stories, and not about trivial nonsense about celebrities f doing this, and that for example. I still wonder how in the world some recent stories from newbies get on the front page at all! Plus I had to block some of those newbies who added me to they're list, and feel it is incumbent upon me to vote on theirs, and that they'll do the same for me. That's like giving me an ultimatum in a way. Certain protocols should be taken into consideration I would hope.
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Spadecaller8 months, 2 weeks ago
sock puppet advertisers
I don't want to run the risk of censoring anyone from contacting me with stories. Ultimately, it is up to me to vote or to delete those who approach me with content that I would not care to endorse.
However, some of this junk that is made up of the duck and 39 adds should be eliminated before it even makes it to our message boards.
Why should any of us have to sift through all that bs. IT's too much of a waste of time.
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Radiofreeeuropa8 months, 2 weeks ago
Ultimately each of us decides what is worth our vote, I am suggesting that we need to be a little more discerning about the process. There has been an awful lot of trite nonsense on the front page lately. I don't mean articles I disagree with, I mean articles with only 1 or 2 sentences. Who votes for this ? (I'm guessing no one knowingly does).
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
BB:
Amen to that brother. I've had a couple get irate that I didn't vote on their stories. Here's a clue for all those clueless ones out there. Do a little research and find out what the people your slinging your stuff to vote for and enjoy.
I don't care what the freaking movie stars do, or who's banging who.
I do care about the quality of life for others and the rights of those who can't always defend themselves.
I love humor, and honest discussions.
Certain music and of course politics and sports.
So don't spam me looking for my vote I'll ignore you and erase your message.
Thanks Rfe. Good post.
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CaptainLucid8 months, 2 weeks ago
I do not make a practice of being on friends lists and endorsements but you are among the few I will usually read a story by. That is because of content. If someone feeds me stories because they know what I read and what I participate in I encourage them. If someone sends me crap I will not hesitate to mark it as spam which it usually is. I think we need much more aggressive responses on spam. A sink is one thing but if a story gets 2 spam votes it should be immediately dealt with.
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Radiofreeeuropa8 months, 2 weeks ago
Actually that is not a problem. I have my favorites that I trust as well. The two of you are in that group, but I always read your stories even if I come back later to do so.
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BoxMonkey8 months, 2 weeks ago
Nice write up there Radio . If I don't read the article or thread as you say , I don't vote .I have said something in a few posts about people voting and no comments , and the reply was that the people bookmark the stories to read them later . Then a while ago there was a person who registered under quite a few names and voted thier own stories up .
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Radiofreeeuropa8 months, 2 weeks ago
Me too. Sometimes my thoughts have already been stated. This type of activity is fine I believe.
Charlson, you can retract your vote for a story, but not comments. Right below the vote tally on a story, there is a button that says retract.
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Spadecaller8 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for picking up the ball, RFE.
This under-the-radar spam does not serve us or Propeller well.
Competition for front page should be based on criterior that attracts and stimulates thought and interest. To some extent,our front page has become the internet rag of classified ads.
A few ads here and there don't bother me, as long as they are secondary, not obstructive, and they do not compete with the primary interest of the article submitted.
But, as you point out in your story, a picture of "a duck and 30 ads" does not belong on the front page. Besides, I don't like wasting the time to sift through all that crap.
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Radiofreeeuropa8 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for weighing in SC! You know the impetus for this whole thing started as a side current on one of your threads, so thanks for the input.
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gamahuche8 months, 2 weeks ago
May I very politely ask you to consider not being so willing to use a vote FOR as a default?
Its because many very nice people do so that the site does begin to resemble RFE's graphic garbage can.
When I look at those sites, before I pass them by or sink them, I am always astounded who DID vote for them- frequently many of the best and brightest amongst us.
And NO - I don't add them to my black list - just wait until an opportunity such as this comes up to give them a gentle nudge!
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blinkers8 months, 2 weeks ago
That's a very valid comment & request, gama. RF's original advice on this thread is good -- no content, no vote or don't vote on a story before reading it. The shallow tripe is surely dismissable in seconds, and deserves no vote.
(However, that's easy for me to say since I'm invariably hours and hours out of sync with the main discussions, and therefore attract very little attention. I'm amazed to read how much some posters are deluged with unwanted contributions).
Good thread, RF, as usual.
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tkyrchncs8 months, 2 weeks ago
I regularly read and comment on stories I do not vote for. My vote for an article means to me that I recommend it to the Propeller membership at large. I once, ONCE voted for a story in order to "book mark" it and it took me so long to get back to it that I still had trouble finding it! I only sink stories that I an sorry to have even looked at, or those that contain "Ann Coulter" in the title, as she is so low-class that I wish everyone would just ignore her completely whatever she says or does.
Thanks for the commentary, RFE. I'm in.
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mesodude8 months, 2 weeks ago
" I only sink stories that I an sorry to have even looked at, or those that contain "Ann Coulter" in the title, as she is so low-class that I wish everyone would just ignore her completely whatever she says or does."
--I'm automatically drawn to stories about Ann Coulter and read them if only to learn if she called anyone a "witch" that day. ;-p
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Dicax_Maximus8 months, 2 weeks ago
RFE - Good article & excellent points raised.
Voting for the sake of it, is a waste of time and (as posted above) just clogs up the front page with garbage !!
I've only posted a couple of stories and was pleased to see them not only get to the front page, but also generate a fair amount of comment, not just white space !!!
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Bkumm8 months, 2 weeks ago
No content = No vote.
There is some information out there that is important to share that can be shared in a couple of sentences.
"The Presidential candidates are all bozos."
"Losing people to war in Iraq sucks."
"Liberals are idiots."
"Global warming is real."
But, do you need a web-site submission and three banner ads to let us know? If it's important enough that it can be summed up in just a couple of sentences, maybe there should be more analysis?
It's fine if you want to vote for Bubba865Smith's story on "Dogs that Bark", because you like dogs and you like barking. That's cool. But, if you go to Bubba's submission and it's a picture of a cartoon dog that barks once, consider carefully if you think that "deserves" to be on the Front Page. Much more importantly than that, does it really deserve your vote, your seal of approval?
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canadianrancher578 months, 2 weeks ago
I guess I must seem sort of anti-social as I have not added anyone to my friends list mostly because the word friend to me is a word that I use causiouly. When it come to voting, I never vote until I read the artical, but do read most that are sent to me. I think that over time we know what people are interested in and know who will be at a story. There have been at times some small stories that I have been sent that were what I would call keepers. In the last little while it seems that spammers are becoming a more visible part of our community and since I don't sink anything i just ignore them.
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tdrapeau8 months, 2 weeks ago
I read this story before voting on it - great post. What would you all think about an upgrade to Propeller that removed voting and sinking altogether?
We could change the way stories are marked popular to take into account how many people read through it, while still taking into account other items, such as age of the story, number of comments/commenters, etc.
If voting only serves to tell us on the Propeller site what you think is popular, we could streamline this by allowing you to "vote" with your eyes, by looking at the story detail page. That way, you don't have to participate in the algorithm, you can sit back and enjoy social news and commenting!
Thoughts?
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Bkumm8 months, 2 weeks ago
That's an interesting idea. Does that mean that only stories that got read would make the "Front Page"?
Could we retain voting, but have the number of reads be weighted heavier?
Just some thoughts.
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tdrapeau8 months, 2 weeks ago
It would certainly skew those stories that are heavily read more than those that get participation drive-bys :-).
We could retain voting, but why bother? I figure Propeller members have better things to do than to decide whether or not to vote on something. If you read it, you read it.
Simple?
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