Gadgets & Tech – Federal officials are routinely asking courts to order cellphone companies to furnish real-time tracking data so they can pinpoint the whereabouts of drug traffickers, fugitives and other criminal suspects, according to judges and industry lawyers. Such requests run counter to the Justice Department's internal recommendation.
Please notice THIS: According to this article, the FBI et al ARE going to the courts to get warrants as required by the Constitution. That's an improvement. Now, if the judges are not requiring the probable cause that is ALSO required by the constitution, that's yet another area the Supreme Court needs to address and get under control.
The GPS locator can be turned off on many cell phones, and on mine it automatically cuts back on if you dial 911. The tower search does not operate if the phone is off. Complain to the judiciary if you are aware that they are not requiring CONCRETE, SPECIFIC information under probable cause, and find out if your cell phone carrier supplies information to law enforcement without a warrant.
This is further proof of the continual desensitization of Americans to the government's degradation of our core set of values. Our core values aren't about who gets to marry who. It's about our constitutional rights. Without Americans continuously striving to protect our bill of rights we are only as free as our government allows us to be.
Government and police don't need chips to track our movements. Every cellphone has a GPS signal that goes out whenever the phone is turned on or off. Fairly accurate, so they say. They caught a murderer in New York City that way last year.
Oh, but I repeat myself.
Wait, it gets better. There is no need for a warrant or any probable cause for police to obtain cellphone records and locational data. All cellphone providers in the USA have signed contracts with the FCC, promising to allow real-time data flows of customer records.
They don't need to be subpoenad, because they have already agreed to provide the information.
In other words, the Feds are listening to potentially any call, for any reason, at any time, and they don't need to ask permission. It is inadmissable evidence, of course, but the cops usually find something better in the course of their searches and interrogations.
This is just...frightening. I mean really frightening AmericanIdiot. I don't know how to respond to this honestly. I knew the government had to do very little to obtain our records but this is just... Is this what this country has become?
We've been giving various entities information about ourselves for decades in the interest of convenience. Think about the discount cards at groceries and retail chains, the information given every time you make a purchase through a credit card, etc. Every time you make an insurance claim, your information goes into a database. Same for visits to a doctor. The government has all kinds of info on us thanks to tax forms, drivers licenses, almost anything you need to fill out forms to enter.
Now we carry transponders (tiny transmitters) in cellphones; cars; keys; ID cards; automatic payment devices like toll passes, gas station "quick passes" and mass transit cards. These kinds of potential tracking devices are willingly carried by most of us. Sadly, it's no surprise that authorities and governmental bodies would want to use these for other purposes, or that they do.
So much Data!
How can it be effectively managed?
How would so much be stored?
Every non-cash transaction can create database entries.
The magnitude is overwhelming!
Millions of Terabytes? (The largest data bases only have hundreds)
Judging by how stupid the "No fly List" is, it is hard for me to imagine the government being able to fund and implement such an endeavor.
Methinks "the man" is relying on the collection of industry.
Perhaps with some financial and legislative forgiveness as a reward?
These are not tools that should be in the hands of folks that have shown a history of misuse.
Richard Armitage became a director of Choice Point. (holder of one of those big databases)
No mater what you think of Valerie and Wilson, the use of private data to smear an individual for political gain smells bad.
It might be worth pondering that people like Rush or Ann are a voice of dissent to 51%
of the folks that could play with this stuff.
The only thing having to do with data collection that works in our favor is the government's inability to organize all its information. But eventually they'll integrate them all and know everything from your shoe size and your favorite drink to your medical history from birth, your exact location and possibly your genome.
And for those of you who trust the government and doubt that this is a bad thing, imagine what a good hacker will be able to do with that info.
Now if I was a conspiracy theorist I wonder why such things as the internet and GPS have been given to us for pennies.
I heard somewhere that it costs about ½$ a billion to put up a satellite (insurance was a big part).
The military strategic advantage of not sharing this technology is obvious.
What better tool than the internet for storing massive amounts of information across a platform of millions of personal computers.
Hmmmm
They can not possibly be that slick?
The government doesn't have to collect data, they can buy it or otherwise obtain useful profiling information from Amazon.com, google, netscape, and other services that use algorithms to triangulate information towards the individual customer. For a business, there is no benefit to refusing cooperation with the government, with the Patriot Acts and a lawless government. They will roll over tlike snitch bitches on any and every one of us, but they want to keep it secret. Also, your computer can testify against you. I don't know a way to permanently erase a hard drive without destroying the computer. I guess a sledgehammer will have to do?
beau- right about giving out information. If you use a grocery store discount card they know everything you buy and the store sells that information. Have you considered paying cash when possible? I've decided that I'll only use a charge card when necessary.
If you use a charge card for gasoline, guess what, they know where you've been.
"Government and police don't need chips to track our movements. Every cellphone has a GPS signal that goes out whenever the phone is turned on or off. Fairly accurate, so they say. They caught a murderer in New York City that way last year."
Umm, ever thought about turning OFF that GPRS selection on your phone? I did. I also use an anonymous SIM card from a local carrier.
Murder solved using cellphone records as forensic evidence:
The physical evidence was bolstered, Mr. Kelly said, by electronic information from cellphone records and by a witness who said he saw a van matching the description of the one used by Mr. Littlejohn making a U-turn at the place Ms. St. Guillen's body was left, about an hour before police found her there.
Around the same time, he said, someone placed a call from nearby with Mr. Littlejohn's cellphone. Ms. St. Guillen's phone had been turned off around the time of the crime, Mr. Kelly said.
HOUSE STANDS BY PATRIOT ACT, BARELY
Efforts to overturn portions of the USA PATRIOT Act were rejected by
the U.S. House of Representatives this week, as lawmakers responded to
a veto threat from the White House. One portion of the PATRIOT Act
lowers the bar for federal officials to obtain records from libraries
and book stores about the habits of their patrons. Civil libertarians
and many in Congress have taken issue with those powers of the law,
calling them unconstitutional, and Reps. Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.) and
C.L. Butch Otter (R-Idaho) had led the push to repeal those powers.
Even without the PATRIOT Act, said critics, investigators can obtain
similar records from libraries or book stores if probable cause is
shown.
The PATRIOT Act allows the government to force disclosure of
records without showing such cause. The effort to block that portion of
the law appeared to have the majority support needed to pass, but 10
Republican lawmakers were persuaded to change their minds, resulting in
a vote of 210-210.
Wired News, 8 July 2004
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,64144...
Not everyone agrees...
http://www.news.com/2100-1030_3-5846037.html
What: In the first case of its kind, a federal judge chastises the U.S. Department of Justice for trying to constantly track a cell phone user's location without providing any proof of criminal behavior.
When: Decided Aug. 25 by U.S. Magistrate Judge James Orenstein in Central Islip, N.Y.
Outcome: Justice Department's Patriot Act surveillance request was denied.
"First it was just the 'terrorists' who's rights we took away. Now its petty crimes, drug users and dealers, and as the article mentions, pretty much anyone they please with or without probable cause."
Yes, aidenag, I agree. We wouldn't want to strip drug traffikers, fugitives, criminal suspects and illegal immigrants of their God-given right to break laws, kill people and take advantage of all of the rights and benefits afforded to the hard-working, law-abiding taxpayer.
This federal practice is a travesty! Guarantee laws, rights and priviliges to the criminal element, I say! Let them run wild and do whatever they want, without pesky government interference or cell-phone tracking, I say! They should be allowed to break laws, demean society and harm people without having their rights violated, I say!
You Liberals are nuttier than a fruitcake.
And you cowards who are hiding under your beds and willing to give up everyones rights are more dangerous than the terrorists you're hiding from.
You say that we are the ones who are scared, but in fact we are just doing what is necessary to stop crime. You are the ones who are scared. On top of that you're parnoid. In 2003 there were 159 million cell phones used in the US. I can promise you that the government does not have the capability to tap all of your phones. Stop being p-noid, pop a xanax and relax. There is no government plot against you.
If the terrorists goal is to "terrorize" then it is the ones who are terrorized who are accomplishing their goal for them.Giving away our rights under the constitution to be completely left alone by the govt unless they have probable cause is a sign of panic.Our country gets it's strength from the constitution and good Americans will want to keep it intact,cowards will want to give it up to feel safe.
What rights are we giving away? I have not lost any, have you? The terrorists goal is to kill all the infidels.
Also, I am not terrorized by them, are you? I just think we should do what's necessary to stop them. By that I mean killing them. Once their dead, we can all party. Deal?
I'm a christian...I don't celebrate someones death.
I do, everyday, and especially on 12/25.
So you pray one minute and the next minute you cheer someone getting tazed or being executed,you cheer war and hate anyone who wants peace,you judge people with different opinions and try to personally insult them and want the govt to harrass innocent people,you condemn other religions who have different beliefs than yours...yeah,a real christian!
What? When did I say any of that? I did not. However, since you brought it up, let me clarify a few things for you. About tazers, I do support officers using them. However, if it were not for trail lawyers I would rather officers use physical force. There's nothing like a good joint lock to settle someone down. Cheering war? No, however I support my country, our troops and our efforts to stop islamic nazism world wide. Burying our heads in the sand as we did in the 90's did nothing for us. I don't hate people who want peace. I want peace. However, I do recognize that often peace can only be obtained after killing your enemies. I do not want the gov't to harrass anyone. I do want them to use whatever tools necessary to catch the criminals. As for religion, the onlyone I criticize is islam. A religion that ripps off the Bible and them tells it's followers to kill Christians.
Not a member? Sign-up today!
rontravel
romeohoover1968
maneetion
leeharris1969
yarrkz24
aemberzix
ToddA.Golden
GregT.Mcmillan
JacobK.Whitlow
RobertA.Gorman
GaryA.Stevenson
WendyA.Haley
ChristinaB.Dowden
Shay
EricTheDataNaut
never_a
hyartep
millwaukeeSteve
Emmanuel70
BJTJ
milos87
MidnightPrism
Wolfie2007
Wil
memaskman
MyWayOnNow
Will1313
mazafaka
Dicax_Maximus
redbarin
zephyr_ali
zaph22
ecotourusa
maria_christina
poloas021
riverdalian
rbtburgess
Monte G
flyonthewallzz
webtime
Helixbuilder
Pupi
139)
This is exactly what people warned about happening due to the Bush administration's lax views on constitutional rights following 9/11 and the patriot act.
First it was just the 'terrorists' who's rights we took away. Now its petty crimes, drug users and dealers, and as the article mentions, pretty much anyone they please with or without probable cause.
What's next?
Sounds like an "Orwellian" society already!
ughhh early morning hand to eye coordination lacking, meant to give positive vote on that. I'm ganna blame this on last nites turkey if thats ok with everyone :)
No problemo amigo!
:o)
Maybe you swallowed the hidden microphone in the turkey.
Hey mntnman444:
Over the holiday I had an opportunity to watch some daytime TV.
This dude was hocking some products that "concerned" parents could use to spy on their children. They included such things as:
A gizmo that recorded all keystroke information
A gizmo that could suck all text messages and such from a cell phone.
A discrete camera.
Some juice that would say if sex had occurred on an object.
He did not mention home drug tests but I know they exist.
He did say though that it was illegal to record audio.
My kids (19 and 20)and I jabbered about it on a thanksgiving drive.
We got a good laugh.
Don't laugh too hard. Who do you think keeps all these people in business?
http://www.thespystore.com/
http://www.spyworld.com/
http://www.dpl-surveillance-equipment.com/
http://www.spyassociates.com/
With all this clever crap out there!
They can not work out effective regenerative braking for a car?
They can not get away from Gasoline (explosive and only ½ yield from crude)?
If I was one of those clever folks I might have different priorities.
More people are dying from staph infections in this country than from AIDS.
How about a clever hand washing gizmo?
You already have "a clever hand washing gizmo" at the end of your other arm. The problem lies in getting you to use it.
90,000 people die each year in this country from such infections.
I do not think they got it from the reception desk I built.
I am sure Luis Pasture would agree with you about the other hand thing.
Too bad he is dead with all the other folks.
Without to much trouble the location of health care providers can be tracked.
It apparently is difficult to define if they have deadly microbes on them.
The point, sir, is that you can do it yourself--you don't have to wait until someone invents "a clever hand washing gizmo."
Does it upset you that taking personal responsibility would make the problem that you perceive disappear?
On the other hand, do you really think that "a clever hand washing gizmo" is going to solve the problem of people who don't wash their hands? What sort of police will you provide to make them use it?
Sorry this argument is silly.
I think the thread started with spying on our children.
My thoughts where that in our industrialized health care system it seems that many have not been able to use the other arm to good effect.
Perhaps a machine that was fast and easy to use that would sterilize a health care workers hands would be better for society than a spray that would tell a parent if their child had had sex.
No need for Police. Unless all chance of filing a lawsuit is removed.
I should have said that the point sir: is that one can talk to thier kids.
Sorry if I pushed some buttons.
This is only one of those newfangled American "Writs of Assistance."
But if we can get every anglo-saxon grandma who's been talking subversively, you know it's got every idiot's OK.